Wednesday, June 04, 2008

Pastor Bob DeWaay responds to the spin doctors

Well, Pastor Bob DeWaay of Twins Cities Fellowship has given his response to the spin doctors trying to use DeWaay's words against other Christia watchmen and apologists who oppose Warren's unbiblical Purpose Driven paradigm, in his Sunday School class on June 1st here. This is especially pertinent given the fire-storm erupted over Chris Rosebrough's not-very-sensitive post regarding Rick Warren. Warren defender Richard Abanes has tried to milk out something from DeWaay's previous statement made in his previous Sunday School class last week (May 25th): that he and Rick Warren share the same doctrines, just different ministry philosophies, of which DeWaay aptly rebuts Abanes' grasping of straws in this response of his. After listening to him, I can say that I have new-found respect for Pastor DeWaay, who truly loves the sheep and does not compromise the truth nor does he stumble the sheep but affirms his solidarity with them, all while doing so in a gentle and godly manner. If only there were more pastors and Christians like him.

Anyway, here is the statement that Pastor DeWaay has sent out through a friend on Saturday, May 30th, which Pastor Ken Silva has posted on his ministry page here.

I wrote my book, Redefining Christianity, assuming that Rick Warren actually believes the Saddleback Church’s statement of faith, but that he refuses to preach it because he wants to be popular with the world and grow his movement. I still think that could still be true—I give him the benefit of the doubt.

At the Saddleback Church conference he was speaking of winning souls for Christ and talking about his father’s legacy of building churches and winning souls. More than likely he believes Baptist doctrine. But along the way he was derailed by reading the church growth theory of Donald McGavran. While in seminary I studied under a disciple of McGavran. McGavran’s book was required reading. His philosophy hinges on this idea: “people do not become Christian for theological reasons, but for sociological ones.”

Rick Warren believed McGavran and set out to study people to find out what makes them tick so he could get them into church — thus “Saddleback Sam.” Purpose Driven is a franchise system to multiply this idea into other churches. Warren tells pastors that they do not have to change any doctrine to join his movement. The reason for that is that doctrine becomes unimportant because it is no longer taught. I don’t think Rick Warren changed his Baptist doctrine either; he just doesn’t allow it to determine what he teaches and what he does. When we met that is what I challenged him about.

So I have not moved in my beliefs nor have I changed my position on any doctrines I have preached.

I will not allow myself to be pitted against any of Warren’s critics. I read Warren Smith’s book and spoke with him on the phone. He is a wonderful brother. The New Age implications are in Rick Warren’s movement and are helping lead toward a One World church. But because he has publicly made statements besides his statement of faith that he believes there is a literal hell and that people without Christ will go there, I don’t believe Rick Warren is a true New Age believer, and neither does Warren Smith. Warren Smith simply says there are New Age implications to what Rick Warren is doing, and I agree with him.

Tomorrow morning [Sunday, June 1, 2008] I will make a statement clarifying what I mean when I said that we did not have theological disagreements in our meeting. Rick Warren did not disagree with my positions on doctrine in our meeting. But he did not comment on everything I said. Please read my book, because in it I point out that Rick Warren privately affirms orthodox Christian theology—he did so again in our presence. So this is not news worthy.

To set the record straight, for those who think I am suddenly okay with Rick Warren – I am not. I asked him to preach Christ and honor the idea of scripture alone – and I pointed out that he cannot have a “reformation” based on general revelation.

These are huge issues and he did not say he was going to change anything—but he did not disagree. Do Warren’s supporters really think that having an orthodox theology in private is all that God expects of a preacher? Do they think we should not hold Rick Warren accountable to sola scriptura? Do they think that we can have any old ministry philosophy even if doing so totally changes the definition of the church and her message from how the Bible defines them?

I challenge Rick Warren’s supporters to step up to the plate and demand that Rick Warren repent, as I requested him to do in my book. Otherwise they have no business claiming that I agree with them.

Bob DeWaay

As Ingrid Schlueter has also stated succintly regarding this episode:

What ultimately matters is not what is said in private by any Christian leader. What has been said publicly by Rick Warren has always been the issue. Rick Warren, I am sure, is a gracious host, and personally, highly congenial. When was that ever in question? The only reason that I and the others who have addressed the PDL movement have ever written or said anything about Rick Warren’s teachings is that these ideas have had a vast impact on the evangelical church around the world. When these ideas do not comport with Holy Scripture, we are under an obligation to say something.

Pastor Bob DeWaay himself has also just posted a column on Christian Worldview Network here to counter the misinformation spread around by various people regarding the visit. Thanks Pastor Bob for standing up when it counted; we salute you.


Richard Abanes said...

I have responded to Bob DeWaay's most recent back-peddling (which is what it is, in my opinion).


Daniel C said...


the back-peddling is occuring only in your mind. We respect Pastor Bob DeWaay and his loving, gentle, respectful and consistent response to the entire PD paradigm, both before and after the meeting.

Btw, how do you know there were "behind the scenes" contacting each other and contacting Bob DeWaay? Do you somehow have the capacity to read others' emails?

Richard Abanes said...

D: Do you somehow have the capacity to read others' emails?

RA: Yes. We have that capability.

Oops, I said, "we." Oh well, the beans are now spilled, I might as well confess.

There actually is no "Richard Abanes" per se. That name is just a collective moniker for about 12 of us, who function as a special blogging elite team hired by Rick Warren to cast a net of protection over the Internet. We take our orders primarily from the Vatican, but our direct overseer is the regional director of the Illuminati, who operates out of a secret an underground enclave between in the desert near Las Vegas.

(I thought I'd just have some fun with you)

Daniel C said...


very funny, NOT. This comment of your reveals more about yourself and your lumping of all Warren critics into one homogenous group, so you may want to protest to the contrary but your actions speak otherwise. Who after all mentions the "Illuminati"? Certainly not me.

Richard Abanes said...


Lighten up.

Bro, you can't get this serious. It's a joke. Calm down.

You're 25 years old - enjoy your youth and lighten up. You don't have to be this serious so soon.

I can't believe you actually responded with: "Who after all mentions the 'Illuminati'? Certainly not me."

Of course you didn't. Sigh.

My advice: Don't take yourself or life so seriously.


PS. We don't seem to be on the same page at all, so I'll not bother your blog again. I do wish you ALL the best as you grow in grace, and seek to love /serve God.

And here's some more advise: Don't let the wrong people attract you and pull you down to their level. Loving God and defending the faith is not about fighting, nailing people, or parsing out your doctrines so they'll pass some cosmic seminary final or so you can impress others -- we're supposed to love, honor, and serve Christ and others.

Daniel C said...


when I want to lighten up, I do not do so at this blog (of which I do not spend all my time here either).

And you are assuming a lot with this advice of yours. Methinks you should realize that my blog does not fully reveal who I truly am. Please stop assuming things.