Saturday, March 14, 2009

Some thoughts on Mark Driscoll

Paul Wallace has written a balanced post on Mark Driscoll here:

There is much to be praised in Mark Driscoll. But there is much to be praised in many pastors all around the world whom we have never heard of. There are things I can learn from Driscoll, but to be honest I can learn them elsewhere without the risk of having my conscience offended by borderline language. I am not convinced that he has the theological depth to be in the influential position he is presently in, with God’s help he perhaps will be in the future.

Here is a good clip by Mark Driscoll just to show that Driscoll does indeed know and preach biblical stuff. We will be praying that in time he will grow to practice more of what he preaches on this topic too.


rick said...

Daniel - greetings in the Name of our great Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As you know, I don't read your blog on a daily basis but float in and out so my thinking is often shaped by a "cluster" of posts. As I read your recent posts, some thoughts popped into mind.

1) You seem to like the Pyro Guys ... I do not. It's curious that you do this at the same time that your dislike of Driscoll seems to be growing. I used to read the Pyro blog but had to stop. They are childish, self-centered, and careless - as demonstrated in their mockery of the emergent movement. They were right on some points and wrong on others ... overall they were right, but in the end, their approach was far from godly. This pattern is not new to them and when I attempted to address that with them they responded in a way that is far from Christ-like.

2) In regard to Driscoll - he has some good stuff. But he has some error. For example, his idea of unlimited limited atonement has a fundamental problem in that he wrongly defines the word atonement. But I like that he points out that evangelicals tend to (not always) overlook God's general grace toward humanity. He also has done a nice job bringing up the role of the man in the home but unfortunately has used Scripture to support his position in cases where it does not rather than simply speaking from common sense or whatever. Net - he's like most of us, imperfect in his teaching.

3) Therefore I'm curious why some dislike him so much but tolerate the sometimes incorrect and often childish blasts from the Pyros.

4) I like being evangelical and it saddens me how many wear the label but should be "disqualified". I think that's why I like your blog. You are attempting to be true. I have found Kevin DeYoung to be helpful - you may enjoy his blog. I especially liked this post on evangelical principles.


PuritanReformed said...


No problem.

1) I have no particular liking for anyone, as in "liking". If what they teach is in accordance with Scripture, and I happen to be somewhat focused on that particular issue, then it is highly likely that I will linked to them.

With regards to "childish, self-centered, and careless", I will withhold judgment on this issue, except to say that it would be goood if you can resolve the issue with Phil in a Christian manner.

Regarding approach, I disagree, and from how I see things, there does not seem to be consistent standards applied to both sides on the issue of "tone". Having looked at the gossiping tabloid of CRN(mis)info, it is highly revealing when one side constantly attacks the other side for what it considers unChristian conduct while it hypocritically engages in behavior even more deplorable than what it thinks it is attacking. Similarly, I think it strange that many other professing Christians can endorse the despicable tactics of the AODMers while having ZERO tolerance for the tactics of the "ODMers" (Mr. Richard head-in-the-sand Abanes is one such example).

As for Mark Driscoll, I would object to the phrase "dislike of Driscoll seems to be growing". It is just that I am focusing more on Driscoll because I am researching into the YRR or New Calvinist phenomenon. I haven't mentioned [Tim] Keller yet although I will do so when I review his book The Reason for God, which I have read but haven't had the time to review yet.

There are a lot of things I have an opinion of, of which I do not mention them in my blog for varous reasons. Just because I do not publicly criticize something or someone does not mean I do not have an opinion on it. Ditto for commendation. It is fallacious to read into the order of posts as if I am "growing in dislike" of something or someone, or any form of "evolutionary development". Most of the time, I have come to a semi-fixed conclusion on the issue by the time I start to blog about something based upon my research into it (and by blog, I mean write original stuff, not post a link here and a link there; a short comment here and a short comment there).

2) I think you will see that I did not "attack" Driscoll, unless you refer to the one post I did in reference to the idea of "contextualization" in an interview with Driscoll in Collin Hansen's book Young, Restless, Reformed. That was because I have interpreted Driscoll's remark as a racist slur which insults Chinese as though we are stupid idiots who must be patronized in using base language in order to reach us for Christ. Racism is not limited to overt forms of discrimination btw (or even affirmation which is reverse discrimination and thus still racism).

That said, I do think that because he is a pastor, there are certain standards to be maintained. Unrepentant usage of smutty language seems to be one of those things which are totally unbecoming of pastors and in fact of religious and civil leaders throughout the world (just to prove that it is not a relative standard).

3) As I have said, I do not see that from the Pyromanacs. Nevertheless, if you will notice, the link is to Phil Johnson's sermon, not to the Pyromaniacs blog.

4) Thanks for the compliment. I will check out Kevin DeYoung's blog. I do have his more famous book which he co-authored with Ted Kluck.

God bless,
Daniel Chew

rick said...

Interesting that you mention CRNinfo ... I stopped reading them about the same time I decided to stop reading TeamPyro ... even though I found some of what they had to say helpful, it was (like Pyro) just too caustic.

PuritanReformed said...