I have just recently read an e-book entitled In the Name of Purpose: Sacrificing Truth on the Altar of Unity by Tamara Hertzell, an informed Christian laywoman, which is on the Purpose Driven paradigm. I would be doing a book review of it soon. Anyway, here are some troubling quotes from our *dear* Pst. Rick Warren. I am seriously considering an upgrade of his false teacher status...
We believe we learn truth -- I've learned a lot from different religions. Because they all have a portion of the truth — Rick Warren[1]
I have known many people who believe in the Messiah of Jesus, regardless of what religion they are, because they believe in him. It's about a relationship, not a religion. You've heard this many times. — Rick Warren [2]
'I'm not talking about a religion this morning. You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish? or you may have no religion at all. I'm not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion'[3].
What do you all think of this?
References:
[1] Interview with Rick Warren, CNN Larry King Live, Aired November 22, 2004, Transcript,
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/22/lkl.01.html
[2] Interview with Rick Warren, CNN Larry King Live, Aired December 2, 2005, Transcript,
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/02/lkl.01.html
[3] Rick Warren, September 2005, United Nations, Interfaith Prayer Breakfast to 100 World Delegates
9 comments:
the 1st n 3rd statements are okay.. for the 1st statement I believe all other religions apart from christianity have some aspect of ultimate truth. Hmm... I feel that God created everything good, and whatever good and praiseworthy (including good aspects of other religions) there is in this world ultimately has its source in Him.
The 2nd statement is beyond logic and looks like nothing more than sheer nonsense
The 3rd statement doesnt really make much sense, dont know what he is trying to say but... it could be that he verbally garbled up whatever point he was trying to make.... so its still pretty ok compared to the 2nd one
hello munchy,
Rick Warren is scary and we should do nothing to give him a single shred of credibility.
Would i allow this man to preach to me? Never. I hope you can protect yourself and guard from this man's poison.
Munchy, please protect yourself. This fool (rick warren) who says
" I've learned a lot from different religions. Because they all have a portion of the truth —"
has become one of them - having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with him!
There is nothing we can 'learn' from other religions. We only have one truth and one God. A half-truth is a lie. So Rick Warren admits he listens to lies. And is proud of it!
please protect yourself munchy.
Hmmm....
Interesting comments. Let's now look at the individual remarks made by Rick Warren.
Remark 1:
We believe we learn truth -- I've learned a lot from different religions. Because they all have a portion of the truth — Rick Warren.
Problem: Practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture. I'm surprised that no one has spotted it yet. Now, if Scripture is sufficient, then there is NO NEED to learn truth from other religions, since whatever true truths they have is already found in Scripture (and thus those religions have borrowed it from the Christian worldview), and the other so-called 'truths' are NOT truths at all.
Therefore, there is no need to learn from other religions. For Warren to say that he learns a lot from other religions means that he has been drinking from the broken cisterns of Man's wisdom and philosophy instead of the living stream of the truth of God's Word as found in God. (Jer. 2:13)
Remarks 2:
I have known many people who believe in the Messiah of Jesus, regardless of what religion they are, because they believe in him. It's about a relationship, not a religion. You've heard this many times. — Rick Warren
Also, remark 3:
'I'm not talking about a religion this morning. You may be Catholic or Protestant or Buddhist or Baptist or Muslim or Mormon or Jewish? or you may have no religion at all. I'm not interested in your religious background. Because God did not create the universe for us to have religion'
Being a former Neo-Evangelical, I know what Warren is trying to talk about when he says that 'It's about a relationship, not a religion'. However, from the context of this phrase, I can understand why Munchy and others think that they sound nonsensical. Well, they sound nonsensical because most probably if didn't occur to you that Warren may be actually preaching inclusivism here. If you read it as such, the two sentences make perfect sense.
Oh, and for Jenson, well, in a sense, Warren DOES preach the exclusivity of Christ; insomuch as he mentions that Jesus is the only way to God. In fact, if you look at the first phrase in its extended context, you will see that Warren does say that Jesus is the only way to God. Therefore, such statements seem to contradict what he is saying in these other sentences.
However, if you look at all the other things which Warren has said, one possibility that has come up is that Warren is an inclusivist. If that is so, then all his sentences make perfect sense and harmony. If you want to know what inclusivism is, a perfect example of a document which espouses inclusivism is the documents of the 2nd Vatican Council, which maintain the exclusivity of Christ yet say that it is possible for people of other religions to be saved.
Oh, and relating to the 3rd remark, if Warren is not interested in the religious background of others, then how can he proclaim the Gospel to them?
As for learning from other religions.. I was thinking of examples like:
- Jews seem to have good sabbath habits, we could learn well to revere the sabbath more
- Muslims have good prayer habits, we could learn well to have consistent and regular prayer habits like they do. And there is still the matter of disciplined fasting
Im not saying that we must be like them. But I think such practices are commendable and their devotion and/or discipline has my respect. (And whats more our God is far greater than anything they have, any extravagant devotion to Him would not be out of place esp. in light of the extent pagans would go to)
And im sure there is other stuff we could learn from other religions as well(like you know doing good and stuff.. heh). Im not saying that they are any subsitute for the truth we currently have, but that if we looked at them properly we could probably identify good practices or some good teachings within them.
Plus one more thing, having a better knowledge of other religions allows me to minister and reach out to others better. For example, if I learnt and understood the background of Islam better, I would provide myself with a means of finding common ground with a muslim friend and being able to converse and address issues of faith relevant to him and ultimately sharing the gospel with him.. cuz I would know what Christianity has that Islam does not have. Likewise for Hinduism, Buddhism, etc..
Hello Munchy,
I think we are talking about apples and oranges. I am talking about Truth; cognitive truth, and so is Warren, by the way. No one uses the word 'truth' when describing the devout practices of adherents of other religions; they are called 'practices'.
>'And im sure there is other stuff we could learn from other religions as well(like you know doing good and stuff.. heh).'
Are you talking about practices here again, or the truths that we should practice i.e. do good. If you are talking about the latter, then as a matter of fact, they are found in Scripture and we do not to go to other religions to discover these truths which other religions have borrowed from us.
'Plus one more thing, having a better knowledge of other religions allows me to minister and reach out to others better.'
This is talking about knowledge of other religions; of all its truths and errors as evaluated by Scripture, in order to reach out to them. It is not talking about seeking truth in other religions, but about knowledge (not truth) of those religions for apologetic value. As it has been said, you are comparing apples and oranges here again.
Therefore, you still have not proven that we should discover truths in other religions.
Eh? my comment didnt go through? darn then I have to retype.. kinda lazy
Anyway I was refering to wenxian saying that we have nothing to learn from other religions, wasnt talking about the truth aspect. But yes a bit apple and oranges
Reviewing Warren's comment. I still agree that:
-There is stuff to learn from other religions (practices)
-Other religions have a (incomplete) portion of the truth
BUT I would NOT agree with using the two points together as he did, it gives pple the wrong idea.
I think that these two points are indirectly related. Each religion has some aspect of truth in their doctrine. And from their beliefs their practices and traditions have emerged. And some of these practices are actually pretty good.
I do not encourage christians to seek truth in other religions. But I feel that in learning about them for school or for background knowledge, I can identify elements of truth in them. But as christians, for the purpose of seeking truth per se, there is no point looking at them.
So yeah, "Therefore, you still have not proven that we should discover truths in other religions."... I was never seeking to prove this
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