Well, it seems that with certain Warrenites and especially Warren apologist Richard Abanes, they are so blind that hard evidence must be smacked right into their faces before they could perhaps begin to see that Rick Warren has denied the Gospel and is a heretic and apostate. To this end, I have produced a (hopefully) water-tight deductive argument to prove the case (that Rick Warren has denied the Gospel), judging from his affirmation of Roman Catholism, and Roman Catholics as Roman Catholics in Roman Catholicism, as brothers and sisters in Christ. So here is it:
Logical Deductive argument for Rick Warren's compromise and denial of the Gospel
excellent Daniel, you are right.
ReplyDeleteHowever we are not really permitted even under compulsion to deny the gospel. Although it is more understandable.
Rick Warren is a heretic. Perhaps he never was told the truth. Perhaps now that Bob DeWaay and Chris Rosebrough have, he will repent. Time will tell. I am not optimistic but I will continue to hope.
Paula:
ReplyDeletethanks. I wasn't saying that we are permitted to deny the Gospel under compulsion, just that there will definitely be pressure and temptation to do just that, and therefore one can profess something that one doesn't believe in under such a scenario. Rick Warren's actions, since they are not done under any form of compulsion whatsoever, perfectly reflects his beliefs and therefore his actions betrays his true beliefs. For a person under compulsion however, it is hard to say whether he truly believes what he says he believes or doesn't believe when in such a state. And that was my point.
Btw, is there a link to Bob DeWaay's report on the Saddleback meeting somewhere?
this is the Sunday School discussion
ReplyDeleteMay 25 Sunday School
here is Bob's written statement
Bob's written statement
OH whoops that isn't the written statement. Let me see if I can find it. But from that thread and the extreme theology blog by Chris, you can see there is some consternation among those of us who know Rick Warren to be a false teacher, about how this has all played out.
ReplyDeleteHere is the text of Bob's letter which someone forwarded to me via email:
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of our meeting Rick asked us to share our stories with him. Both of us had come out of bad doctrine and faulty movements to become gospel centric. I shared my experience of learning church growth theory at seminary and showed him a first edition copy of his book The Purpose Driven Church that was required reading for me in 1996. I also shared how discouraging church growth teaching was as our inner city church was shrinking. I shared how I found hope and inspiration from John MacArthur and that I chose his ministry model rather than church growth theory.
We both urged him to start preaching Christ and I shared with him how I preach Christ to illustrate that. Chris Rosebrough was outstanding and told him that after listening to all his messages that he is preaching law but not gospel. He told Rick that he was putting people under a load of guilt (by telling them to do this and do that) but giving them no answer as far as forgiveness of sins.
We pleaded with him concerning sola scriptura, and were able to freely share our concerns. I gave him my book and the Berean’s discernment tool. I told him why I disagreed with his ministry philosophy. I also told him that his 'reformation' is based on general revelation rather than Scripture. He was very cordial and listened to all we had to say. He claims to agree with our basic beliefs as far as theology goes.
Rick took my book and the other material. I do not know if he is going to do anything about it, but at least he listened. We will see if he begins to preach Christ.
Concerning the abuse that Purpose Driven pastors have done, that he would not own. He claims that Luther is not responsible for everything done in the name of Luther and that Reformed people are not responsible for everything done in the name of Calvin, and he likewise is not responsible for things done in his name. We got nowhere with that part of the conversation. (I do not agree with his analogy but that is another matter).
We also have access to his executive pastor and plan to use it to continue to plead for gospel preaching in the church.
I would say that what good we did will not be known until we see if Warren starts preaching Christ according to the terms of the New Testament. For now, we are praying for that he will.
We were treated very well by everyone there and have no complaints about that.
He did nothing to try to get us to join his movement. He seemed most interested in why it was we felt the need to publicly oppose him.
Bob
Hmmm,
ReplyDeletethanks Paula for the information. I think it would be good for us to pray for these two brothers of ours. Whatever happens, this is a spiritual battle, and it would do none of us, let alone the cause of Christ, no good to shoot those of us who may waiver. Rick Warren is very slippery and the best thing we can do for both of them is to pray for them.