tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post1792270685900581390..comments2023-09-01T16:11:44.564+08:00Comments on Daniel's Place - (Reformata et semper reformanda): A belated response to Tim Challies' article attacking watchblogsDaniel Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-82717442881633169802009-07-26T16:27:51.490+08:002009-07-26T16:27:51.490+08:00Ken,
and this is?Ken,<br /><br />and <a href="http://kenbrec.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/fighting-fire-with-fire/" rel="nofollow">this</a> is?Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-90985544076235571642009-07-26T13:48:53.828+08:002009-07-26T13:48:53.828+08:00Challies is wrong! I haven't agreed with every...Challies is wrong! I haven't agreed with everything you've written that's impossible with anyone anyway. But there needs to be people who watch. It's part of who we are as a Body of Christ and there isn't than we are descending back into the middle ages!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-3268595860586585902009-04-30T22:13:00.000+08:002009-04-30T22:13:00.000+08:00SB:
Amen.SB:<br /><br />Amen.Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-54826065905305154072009-04-30T18:27:00.000+08:002009-04-30T18:27:00.000+08:00"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with ..."Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, Benghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10424667985021268808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-54972622424952914892009-04-29T23:53:00.000+08:002009-04-29T23:53:00.000+08:00I honestly didn't see it that way ... but I accept...I honestly didn't see it that way ... but I accept that others may have. The issue here is that there was this language combined with false accusation ... he was speaking to those who are chronically negative yet he is accused of doing the same with his post. So it was the tone plus a starting contradiction that kept me from reading on.<br /><br />I identified with him. I think there is need to rickihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08761115460598252675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-44844437253562914592009-04-29T23:04:00.000+08:002009-04-29T23:04:00.000+08:00Rick:
I sure hope you feel the same way toward Ch...Rick:<br /><br />I sure hope you feel the same way toward Challies' inflammatory language in his article.Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-88901272586389857342009-04-29T19:37:00.000+08:002009-04-29T19:37:00.000+08:00I wanted to stay out of this because I didn't read...I wanted to stay out of this because I didn't read the whole post closely and therefore felt no right to comment ... but I somehow feel compelled.<br /><br />Challies wrote a post (and then two) in this topic. He occasionally confronts error of various sorts in his blog. In this post he spoke about "blogs that specialize in sharing bad news." Reading through his blog I fail to see his as having arickihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08761115460598252675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-21318883069000443222009-04-29T00:13:00.000+08:002009-04-29T00:13:00.000+08:00Marn Chi:
I agree. The tragedy IMO is that the ch...Marn Chi:<br /><br />I agree. The tragedy IMO is that the churches in general do not follow biblical guidelines on choosing elders. We should be using the pastoral epistles (1 Tim. 3: 1-7; Titus 1: 5-9) to choose pastors and elders (and deacons too). Instead, pastors and elders (and pastoral staff too) are chosen according to how godly they appear to be, how dedicated to the church they are, how Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-25633698047925888072009-04-29T00:01:00.000+08:002009-04-29T00:01:00.000+08:00Thanks, an insightful analysis of a damaging post ...Thanks, an insightful analysis of a damaging post by Challies<br /><br />I especially do not understand his local church - elder - discernment thingy. Its utter rubbish. <br /><br />Not only do I believe Christians are called to be discerning of everything they encounter in church and out of church... but many elders also lack the gift of discernment themselves, we would all be doomed then if itsMChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06329530297743863755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-37385805938027261162009-04-28T22:35:00.000+08:002009-04-28T22:35:00.000+08:00>In the end, Puritan Reformed, it seems like yo...>In the end, Puritan Reformed, it seems like you have a *very* good idea of who Mr. Challies was referring to. <br /><br />If you mean I can through use of logical deductions make an educated guess who Challies is probably critizing, then yes, anybody with half a brain can do it.<br /><br />>At the end of the day, Slice of Laodicea and CRN were upset because it was pretty evident that Mr. Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-33373883929413564642009-04-28T22:31:00.000+08:002009-04-28T22:31:00.000+08:00M.G.:
>But he was not dismissing the power of ...M.G.:<br /><br />>But he was not dismissing the power of discernment, or using the internet to warn<br /><br />That is your mere assertion contrary to the plain facts presented.<br /><br /><br />>Funniest of all, is that you conclude by saying "I agree. Such websites/blogs are NOT discernnment blogs or watchblogs." <br />So who is redefining terms by fiat? <br /><br />I have Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-48405039053478542862009-04-28T21:58:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:58:00.000+08:00In the end, Puritan Reformed, it seems like you ha...In the end, Puritan Reformed, it seems like you have a *very* good idea of who Mr. Challies was referring to. <br /><br />In which case, the complaint about vagueness is just smoke and mirrors. <br /><br />At the end of the day, Slice of Laodicea and CRN were upset because it was pretty evident that Mr. Challies were talking about them, and pretty much no one else. <br /><br />Period.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08396333401202704246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-72645760823310267342009-04-28T21:56:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:56:00.000+08:00His point was about blogs that specialize in shari...His point was about blogs that specialize in sharing bad news. <br /><br />He could have been referring to Slice of Laodicea, he could have been referring to CRN.info, he could have been referring to anyone in his own mind. <br /><br />But he was not dismissing the power of discernment, or using the internet to warn. <br /><br />I think you need him to do that, so then you can "aha! but aren'tM.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08396333401202704246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-15928711398294875202009-04-28T21:49:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:49:00.000+08:00>You state, Puritan Reformed, that Mr. Challies...>You state, Puritan Reformed, that Mr. Challies attacked only the discernment side, but not the anti-discernment side. <br /><br />The anti-discernment camp has never called themselves discernment blogs or watchblogs. They call themselves the "watcher of the watchdogs" or something to that effect. None of them will think Challies' post apply to them in any fashion. Just look at Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-37005485671709064672009-04-28T21:44:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:44:00.000+08:00M.G.:
This is what Challies himself said in his f...M.G.:<br /><br />This is what Challies himself said in his first article:<br /><br />"I want to say a word today about watchblogs or discernment blogs or whatever you want to call them. I am referring to blogs that specialize in sharing bad news."<br /><br />Notice the phrase "<B>discernment</B> blogs"? Or are you going to (re-)define all "good" blogs to be non-discernment blogs, Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-51261163941419896262009-04-28T21:13:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:13:00.000+08:00I'm confused again.
You state, Puritan Reformed...I'm confused again. <br /><br />You state, Puritan Reformed, that Mr. Challies attacked only the discernment side, but not the anti-discernment side. <br /><br />But I thought he didn't name names? <br /><br />So how do you know that he was only critiquing blogs like Slice of Laodicea, and not CRN.info? <br /><br />In the end, I really think the lady doth protest too much.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08396333401202704246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-23095791422619288112009-04-28T21:11:00.000+08:002009-04-28T21:11:00.000+08:00Puritan Reformed:
I think you are exaggerating Mr...Puritan Reformed:<br /><br />I think you are exaggerating Mr. Challies's post. He didn't get personal. He didn't use names. He wasn't insulting.<br /><br />And the one thing he certainly did not do is "attack discernment." <br /><br />He simply stated that there is a wiser path than to have a blog *dedicated* to reporting bad news no matter the source or the context. <br /><br />There are M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08396333401202704246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-55647115649288908202009-04-28T14:29:00.000+08:002009-04-28T14:29:00.000+08:00M.G.:
Just FYI, when I do take such people to tas...M.G.:<br /><br />Just FYI, when I do take such people to task, I address the flaws in their positions, not them as person or discernment per se. An example can be seen in my review of Tamara Hartzell's book which you access here (http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/ddd_chc82/articles/inthenameofpurpose_review.html). Why can't Challies do the same instead of attacking watchblogs indiscriminately?Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-65674429029274699192009-04-28T14:20:00.000+08:002009-04-28T14:20:00.000+08:00Also, the silence from Challies regarding the AODM...Also, the silence from Challies regarding the AODM blogs is defeaning. If he is really against negativity, why only one side is attacked, not the other?Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-90850858480575478662009-04-28T14:18:00.000+08:002009-04-28T14:18:00.000+08:00M.G.:
>Which blogs are *you* talking about?
Y...M.G.:<br /><br />>Which blogs are *you* talking about?<br /><br />You want an example? How about Paul Proctor (http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctorA.htm)? While what he says is probably true, his way of doing so is not one I would like to be associated with. <br /><br />On the opposite side, why don't you try out CRN.(mis)info or Richard Abanes especially with his group of Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-54351249884953430222009-04-28T12:29:00.000+08:002009-04-28T12:29:00.000+08:00PuritanReformed:
I would take your response more ...PuritanReformed:<br /><br />I would take your response more seriously had you not written this:<br /><br />"Now of course, is there nothing to Challies' complaint? Of course there is! There are so-called "discernment" blogs that I personally do not exactly want to be associated with."<br /><br />Which blogs are *you* talking about?<br /><br />I think that the individuals who screamed loudest M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18437859791487504097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-43138177179358476632009-04-28T12:24:00.000+08:002009-04-28T12:24:00.000+08:00Paula:
=)Paula:<br /><br />=)Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-68469597557636623702009-04-28T12:12:00.000+08:002009-04-28T12:12:00.000+08:00M.G.
I see your point now, sorry for missing it p...M.G.<br /><br />I see your point now, sorry for missing it previously.<br /><br />If you have indeed read my post, I have written this:<br /><br />===<br /><br />The proper biblical response to inappropriate "discernment" ministries is to lovingly reach them and call upon them to be loving as well as discerning. ...<br /><br />In the case of inappropriate judgments, we should correct them in loveDaniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-86775306373762570102009-04-28T12:02:00.000+08:002009-04-28T12:02:00.000+08:00PuritanReformed:
Also, I think you misunderstood ...PuritanReformed:<br /><br />Also, I think you misunderstood my initial comment. I said that you probably have a firm commitment to ensuring your brothers don't stumble... with the one exception of your attitude towards negative blogging and its effect on the Christian blogosphere. <br /><br />In other words, I was assuming *the best* about you. Not the worst.M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18437859791487504097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-83578858984957791342009-04-28T12:00:00.000+08:002009-04-28T12:00:00.000+08:00Puritan Reformed:
I didn't beg the question. I m...Puritan Reformed:<br /><br />I didn't beg the question. I made a claim, not an argument. <br /><br />My claim was simple. There are blogs that are devoted to bad news. <br /><br />You basically said, "so what?"<br /><br />I said, "well, what if people stumble?"<br /><br />If there are people out there with an unhealthy fixation on bad news, which I think there are, then the blogs that could M.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18437859791487504097noreply@blogger.com