tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post3702827499399900988..comments2023-09-01T16:11:44.564+08:00Comments on Daniel's Place - (Reformata et semper reformanda): The sovereign God, His decrees and secondary causesDaniel Chttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-82906713721574442082014-10-13T09:50:37.716+08:002014-10-13T09:50:37.716+08:00I was looking for this post. U did not tagged it u...I was looking for this post. U did not tagged it under Vincent Cheung? i can't find it under Vincent CheungDarylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02660538152882356705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-18612453611433856042014-08-20T04:19:06.972+08:002014-08-20T04:19:06.972+08:00@Michael,
I think removing alternatives involve r...@Michael,<br /><br />I think removing alternatives involve removing the possibility of alternative states of mind from a person, such that a person can only choose to will in certain ways.<br /><br />God would harden Pharaoh's heart because it is natural for a person under duress to give in if only to have relief from the ordeal. In other words, Pharaoh might give in to Moses not because of Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-65629880184782009922014-08-20T02:08:52.510+08:002014-08-20T02:08:52.510+08:00I would have to think over your response more Dani...I would have to think over your response more Daniel. It may work out logically. But I don't know that scripture supports it wholly.<br /><br />Does harden Pharaoh's heart mean take away every choice until he makes the one God wants him to? I am no exegete but if Heart = Mind and the mind = volition, then it would seem this isn't just limiting choices but changing how those Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16964669097296964323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-6588093682582522142014-08-17T17:22:47.370+08:002014-08-17T17:22:47.370+08:00And all your citation of Calvin only proves that G...And all your citation of Calvin only proves that God is the ultimate cause behind evil, and that it is not mere permission. All of which missed my entire point, since I am not arguing for mere permission but a negation manner of operation<br /><br />Your case fails, because you are refuting a strawman of my positionDaniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-36979118496648100692014-08-17T17:20:18.699+08:002014-08-17T17:20:18.699+08:00@Roger:
>If these verses don’t teach that God ...@Roger:<br /><br />>If these verses don’t teach that God “directly” and “actively” causes men to commit specific sins by turning their hearts to fulfill His will, then language has lost all meaning. <br /><br />You are the one who is reading your philosophy into the texts. The texts say that God is the ultimate cause who did all these things. Where in the texts did it speak of the MANNER in Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-90212993056475683822014-08-17T17:15:14.325+08:002014-08-17T17:15:14.325+08:00@johnall:
Are you honestly trying to tell me that...@johnall:<br /><br />Are you honestly trying to tell me that any sentence that is philosophical is NECESSARILY not biblical?<br /><br />And are you trying to say that there are things in this world that God has a "oops" moment when he sees it?<br />Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-31894043500159505662014-08-17T13:03:52.913+08:002014-08-17T13:03:52.913+08:00“With regard to secret movements, what Solomon say...“With regard to secret movements, what Solomon says of the heart of a king, that it is turned hither and thither, <i>as God sees meet</i>, certainly applies to the whole human race, and has the same force as if he had said, that whatever we conceive in our minds <i>is directed to its end by the secret inspiration of God</i>.” (John Calvin, <i>Institutes of the Christian Religion</i>, 1.18.2)<br /Roger Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350892815584257304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-19904023514140410022014-08-17T12:59:03.886+08:002014-08-17T12:59:03.886+08:00“Hence a distinction has been invented between doi...“Hence a distinction has been invented between <i>doing</i> and <i>permitting</i> because to many it seemed altogether inexplicable how Satan and all the wicked are so under the hand and authority of God, that he directs their malice to whatever end he pleases, and employs their iniquities to execute his Judgments. The modesty of those who are thus alarmed at the appearance of absurdity might Roger Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350892815584257304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-78357670206829939312014-08-17T07:40:45.240+08:002014-08-17T07:40:45.240+08:00“He turned their heart to hate His people, to deal...“<i>He turned their heart to hate His people</i>, to deal craftily with His servants.” (Psalm 105:25)<br /><br />“And for this reason <i>God will send them strong delusion</i>, that they should believe the lie…” (2 Thessalonians 2:11)<br /><br />“For <i>God has put it into their hearts</i> to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God Roger Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18350892815584257304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-21576868830098818392014-08-17T04:30:07.260+08:002014-08-17T04:30:07.260+08:00"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wis..."God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass"<br />[Westminster Confession]<br /><br />This is a doctrine of human philosophy, which we are warned against relying upon, instead being encouraged to draw our wisdom from God's word. I (and possibly others) refer to this philosophical position Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-86482364967852494922014-08-16T07:24:06.498+08:002014-08-16T07:24:06.498+08:00@Michael:
I think GH Clark gave a good attempt on...@Michael:<br /><br />I think GH Clark gave a good attempt on the problem and his solution has some merit. However, I do not think his solution is sufficient in and of itself.<br /><br />When I use the word "passive," I made it clear that "passive" does not mean God is not involved. It just means God is not involved in the sense of positively working action X. God is involved Daniel Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678184721218949112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19775846.post-21130701234053132142014-08-16T01:29:03.307+08:002014-08-16T01:29:03.307+08:00Hello again Daniel. I am enjoying this discussion...Hello again Daniel. I am enjoying this discussion and your posts they are very good and I am glad you are explaining how God is not the cause of evil. I happen to think Gordon Clark solved the problem quite well. But I wonder if you could hear what I think he said and what you say in this post. <br /><br />I don't like the word passive when it comes to God. I don't think God ever &Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16964669097296964323noreply@blogger.com